Curse

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 27, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorrix

As for tying in with skills, what I meant was that no other attribute should be related to any other attribute in my opinion. Expertise dosen't boost beast mastery does it? Or marksmanship. At least not other than skill use. (Was that what you were referring to?) Nor does any other attribute as I am aware. I am well aware soul reaping has no skills, but that suits me to the ground to be fair.

It boosts skills that use beast mastery marksmanship and wilderness survival.
Having soul reaping boost some deathmagic skills would be the same. Summoning is not the only death magic skill. Death magic also has DD spells, that use corpses, AoE spells that use corpses etc.

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I really hate the idea of altering Soul Reaping. I play my necromancer mostly, and I think that Soul Reaping is quite possibly the strongest primary ability in the game in PvE, and can be used by a good team to incredible advantage in PvP - though it does take the right build, and it isn't easy to do.

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it, here is mine, not everyone build the same as you, wants to or even can do.
I still like the idea, infact as far as I'm concerned they could not bother with altering soul reaping, but just ditch the degen on minions, they are not that powerful after ascention. Just cap the amount you can have. I personally don't want to spend 1-3 slots on skills to keep my minions alive inbetween encounters during encounters sure, inbetween no thanks. I actually play Necro alot, that and ranger are my 2 fav classes. (N/E and a R/Mo, both finished all missions)

goku19123 · Jun 27, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Why would developers change a primary attribute, so that it favors only one type of Necromancer build?

That's like saying make an addition to Energy Storage, such that at level 12 ES you get +1 automatically to Air Magic.

LOL, Ditch the degeneration on minions? You realize how broken that is, correct?

Epinephrine · Jun 27, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by goku19123

LOL, Ditch the degeneration on minions? You realize how broken that is, correct?

It seems to me that some people don't like working at the game. If minions didn't degenerate they would be broken - for example, you could let your party of 7 range on ahead while you tag along behind, building up a huge army - then once you have 40? 60? or so Bone Fiends, you take over the combat with your horde After all, by hanging back they aren't in combat, so you just let it build. It gets a bit absurd. I mean, yes, it is work running a minion necromancer, and it isn't without its weaknesses - which is good! You should have weaknesses.

IF you really want skills tied to Soul Reaping I think the type of skills I suggested aren't bad - they fit the theme of sacrifice for effect and of reaping from the dead already in game, and sensibly link to Soul Reaping. If you simply want better minions I suspect you are asking for too much.

Sniper22 · Jun 27, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Ok, I haven't read all the post on this thread but here's what I'm gonna say. I really hate this idea.

1) Not all Necros make minions so this would be completely useless.
2) No one really takes the time to actually kill all of the fiends and minions, the degen is really the only way how they die. This will make minions way too powerful in pvp.
3) Verata's Sacrifise is going to be overpowering.
4) Attributes shouldn't do two things.
5) Setting a minion limit is dumb, the amount of minions you make and keep should be base on your skill.
6) Minions don't degen the same amount of health, as they get older, they lose a lot more, and soul reaping shouldn't change what they give
7) Some Necros are prime for the runes, like 16 death magic to have lvl 18 fiends or 13 minions.
8) I like the mana, well of blood with 10 soul reaping really cost 5 energy, res would really cost nothing. Also gives you a bit more energy to use after you kill someone, so you can start attacking someone else.

Yorrix · Jun 27, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

It boosts skills that use beast mastery marksmanship and wilderness survival.
Having soul reaping boost some deathmagic skills would be the same. Summoning is not the only death magic skill. Death magic also has DD spells, that use corpses, AoE spells that use corpses etc.

That I don't mind so much. What I am protesting over is the suggestion that the attributes themselves should be tied together. So ranks in soul reaping aids summoning without the use of a skill (it gives a natural bonus). I agree with the use of attribute based skills to aid other skills of different attributes. This doesn't tie any attribute to another, as you could also introduce other skills for aiding other attribute skills. (So you can also have soul reaping based skills for aiding blood magic based skills, for example.)

I cannot believe I had to explain that three times already. *Shakes head.* Did I really explain it that poorly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

Quote:

I really hate the idea of altering Soul Reaping. I play my necromancer mostly, and I think that Soul Reaping is quite possibly the strongest primary ability in the game in PvE, and can be used by a good team to incredible advantage in PvP - though it does take the right build, and it isn't easy to do.

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it, here is mine, not everyone build the same as you, wants to or even can do.

By request, can you please source your quotes. It reads like the previous quote you gave was my opinion, which it wasn't. This was in fact Epinephrine's view.

Please note, I'm not trying to get at you Shadow_Avenger, that's not what I want at all. I just want people to be clear in understanding what my views and opinions are and are not on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Quote:

Originally Posted by goku19123

LOL, Ditch the degeneration on minions? You realize how broken that is, correct?

It seems to me that some people don't like working at the game. If minions didn't degenerate they would be broken - for example, you could let your party of 7 range on ahead while you tag along behind, building up a huge army - then once you have 40? 60? or so Bone Fiends, you take over the combat with your horde After all, by hanging back they aren't in combat, so you just let it build. It gets a bit absurd. I mean, yes, it is work running a minion necromancer, and it isn't without its weaknesses - which is good! You should have weaknesses.

By the way, you do realise that goku19123 was saying that ditching degeneration would break the game, just as you have pointed out? He wasn't in favour of dropping degeneration. I do agree with the point at hand though, it is a purely broken idea.

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 27, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by goku19123

Why would developers change a primary attribute, so that it favors only one type of Necromancer build?

That's like saying make an addition to Energy Storage, such that at level 12 ES you get +1 automatically to Air Magic.

LOL, Ditch the degeneration on minions? You realize how broken that is, correct?

Hmm, Soul Reaping is necro only.

Quote:

It seems to me that some people don't like working at the game. If minions didn't degenerate they would be broken - for example, you could let your party of 7 range on ahead while you tag along behind, building up a huge army - then once you have 40? 60? or so Bone Fiends, you take over the combat with your horde After all, by hanging back they aren't in combat, so you just let it build. It gets a bit absurd. I mean, yes, it is work running a minion necromancer, and it isn't without its weaknesses - which is good! You should have weaknesses.

Hence the cap, the degen is the way they have capped the minions, it is imposs to maintain more than 8, so keep having a cap as suggested would surfice. The main implication in game would not be PvP as very few actually successfully use minion builds in PvP, but in PvE when enemies summon minions and fiends you would actually HAVE to kill them rather than let them degen.

Your new skills may make it into an expansion, who knows, I would still like to have the degen removed and a cap on max amount of minions though. The idea of having a small mixed army of undead really would be fun in PvE, and in PvP good, but not as easy to do, minions and necro's would get a pasting by warriors big time, as they have poor AC and unlike Elementalist or monks don't have AC buff spells. (True that your build could modify for this, but something would have to give somewhere else in your build.) Plus spamming magics to keep minion alive in PvP is probably the most dangerous move a Necro could make, as it makes you easier to kill.

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Ok, I haven't read all the post on this thread but here's what I'm gonna say. I really hate this idea.

Probably would have been better to read the post first, some of your points have already been answered. But we are all entitled to speak our mind.

Epinephrine · Jun 27, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

Hence the cap, the degen is the way they have capped the minions, it is imposs to maintain more than 8

On what planet? Oh,from your example of a proposed limit....

You mean indefinitely? or is this some odd example of yours? I know that you can get a pretty big army going. Bone fiends are handy as they group up so well, you can get them all with heals regularly - provided your healer takes care of you you can amass a heck of an army. I don't care for a limit of 8, that's less than I can have up in a good battle. But then again, the number onf minions you can keep up right now depends on teamwork and skill - going to a flat limit removes those effects, which takes away from what this game is about.

I do agree that you could put a cap on the number instead of having degeneration - it's a different way to the same end really, but I am fine with my decaying minions - if they got the balance of the cap right to match degeneration you'd end up at the exact same state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

but in PvE when enemies summon minions and fiends you would actually HAVE to kill them rather than let them degen.

I somehow doubt you are suggesting it so that the enemies have longer lasting minions... You are trying to improve your build. My build doesn't need it, which isn't a reason to oppose it, but I also don't think necro minion builds need a boost - they are quite powerful as it is. I would like the minions not to crumble during a cutscene, and it'd be great if they could cross a zone with you - it is such a pain to have a good army rolling and lose them the minute you cross a border - they forget their passports?

I did read the posts - I don't like the concept. Necromancer minions decaying annoyed me at first, as I wanted my D2 army of 70 minions, but the fact is that it is a good and elegant solution to the issue of undead armies - it is next to impossible to build a really huge army, but it can be done by a good team. Challenges and skill are nice things to bring into the game, and I don't think any class should have a free ride. The decay suits the theme of the class, so I like the idea behind it - it both fits the idea of death and decay as well as the notion that for a necromancer to keep his power up he must continue killing - that's the only way to keep his army going as well.

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 27, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I uses Curse and blood magics or elementalist skills. Using elementalist skills i max one to 12, usually lighting, can be any though, with glyph puts elementalist skills to 14, so you do very nice damage.
I occationally use minions and modify my build, so no its not about making my build better, I don't care if someone else has a better build, I play for Fun and thats all there is to it.

Btw The read the post wasn't aimed at you Epinephrine, more to the guy who posted that he hadn't read the posts.

BTW how many have you had going at once for more than 5 mins, in between battles? I find the waiting for energy to rebuild, after summoning 2 means I have to spam healing and on summoned minions so once I get to 8 it gets very tricky, unless you have a healer healing your minions for you, then it would be possible to get higher. Plus you actually need enough bodies. I wouldn't call it skill to have more than 8 I would say its having a good healler to back you up.

Then against there is alot that people call skill which is just not true, it is hack and slash, picking a good set of skills is the only skill. Chess is a game that requires skill, and GW is not a game of chess. Even in GvG , HoH it is the skill in picking the skills to fight with, the teams skill is in communication. The battle is point click, counter skills etc etc, In the heat of battle it doesn't happen expect on skills that disrupt, then you time, the rest you don't.